"When you have lost territory, then you destroy it," Anders Åslund, who has served as an economic adviser to the governments of Russia and Ukraine, told Newsweek. "I think that this is something that you do when you give up. It's not an offensive action but sour grapes. [Russia is saying], 'We have lost the apple; we are destroying as much as possible.'"

 

I have read reports from British intelligence that says Ukraine has made at least 3 breakthroughs and is rolling up the sides of several pockets of Russians. The locations are blocked out. It seems looking at a map that they are going to head for the Azov Sea to cut off the land bridge there. You have to know they are fighting for Bakhumt, which while tieing up troops is a worthless piece of dirt now. My understanding is that Ukraine has done a nice flanking move there.

The other one I can't identify, they can't really take Crimea. Ukraine can salivate over it all they want. But they don't have enough men or material to take that. The north is so close to the border that I can't see them jumping off in that direction. So any idea where the third break out is?

 

If they push Russia back to there internationally recognised border with Ukraine they can still make a 20 mile or greater strip of land unusable by use of artillery,drones and missles.The Ukrainian's will not be about to strike back because they have been told no bombs on Russia or we will cut aid.....

 

We saw this during the Vietnam War. As soon as they cancelled all deferments and went to the draft lottery that war was all but over. As soon as the sons of the elites stood just as good a chance of ending up in Vietnam as everyone else they elite withdrew their support for the war. And without it Nixon and the government couldn't keep drafting.



Many in Russia's elite no longer believe Putin can win the Ukraine war, report says: 'The best they hope for is that Russia will lose without humiliation'

716
Tom Porter
Thu, June 8, 2023 at 6:15 AM MDT



Russian President Vladimir Putin chairs a meeting with members of the Russian government via teleconference in Moscow on March 10, 2022.MIKHAIL KLIMENTYEV/SPUTNIK/AFP via Getty Images

• 
  Members of the Russian elite are turning against the Ukraine war, Bloomberg reported.
  
  
• They best they can hope for is losing without humiliation, the report said.
  
  
• However Putin shows no sign of wanting to end the conflict, it said.
  

Many members of Russia's elite are growing doubtful about the ability of their president, Vladimir Putin, to win the war in Ukraine, Bloomberg reported.

The best they can hope for is a "frozen" conflict or a loss in which Russia isn't humilated, the report said.

Despite this deepening gloom, Putin shows no sign of wishing to end the war, according to Bloomberg.


The outlet cited seven people with knowledge of the situation who asked not to be identified given the seriousness of the issues.

It said that many in the upper echelons of Russian politics and business are tired of the war and want it to end.

Five sources told Bloomberg that while no one is willing to "stand up" to Putin over the invasion, belief in his authority has been shaken.

"It is really surprising how widespread among the Russian elite became the idea of a chance that Putin won't win this war," Kirill Rogov, a former Russian government advisor who left the country after the invasion, told Bloomberg.

It is unclear what a victory would look like for Russia, but two sources told Bloomberg they hoped Putin would try and claim a "Pyrrhic victory" on the basis of land in Ukraine that Russia already occupies.

Alexandra Prokopenko, a former Russian journalist and central bank advisor, told Bloomberg that "'the best they hope for is that Russia will lose without humiliation."

Many in Russia's business and economic elite were targeted by Western sanctions after Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. However, according to a paper in April by think tank The Wilson Center, Russia's elite show no sign yet of moving to oppose Putin's rule, despite the punishing cost of their loyalty to the Russian president.

"It is evident that the wealthiest individuals in Russia, who amassed their fortunes through the collaboration and support of the government, are unwilling or unable to oppose Putin despite their considerable wealth, connections, and resources," the report said.

Experts have told Insider that a challenge to Putin's power would most likely come if Russia were to lose the war and its forces were driven out of Ukraine.

Russia had initially expected a swift victory in Ukraine, but the war has become a protracted stalemate which has come at a huge cost to Russia's military and economy.

Russia currently occupies large swaths of territory in east and south Ukraine. The Ukrainian military is seeking to drive Russian troops back in a much-anticipated counter-offensive this summer.

Read the original article on Business Insider

https://www.yahoo.com/news/many-russias-elite-no-longer-121550767.html

 

Russian Fighters Are ‘Kidnapping and Torturing’ Other Russian Fighters

222
Allison Quinn
Thu, June 8, 2023 at 5:27 AM MDT



Press service of Concord/Handout via Reuters
A lieutenant-colonel in the Russian military who says he was held hostage by the Wagner Group now claims the notorious mercenaries regularly abduct Russian troops and torture them.

Roman Vinivitin, the former commander of Russia’s 72nd Motorized Rifle Brigade, was paraded before cameras earlier this week in an interrogation video released by Wagner, in which he was accused of drunkenly firing at mercenaries.

Now, in a video released by independent Russian news outlets Thursday, Vinivitin is calling out Wagner founder Yevgeny Prigozhin personally.

“Yevgeny Viktorovich, you are openly discrediting the Russian Armed Forces,” he says in the 11-minute video.


Vinivitin goes on to claim the mercenary group was essentially at war with the regular army, even as both sides were meant to be fighting Ukrainians.

“In response to the question of whether I have ill will towards Wagner, I will put it this way… Tensions with the Wagnerites for me and my brigade began from the first day of our transfer to the [Bakhmut] area. This was due not only to them provoking our fighters into conflicts with their audacious behavior and constant threats to eliminate, kill, but also with specific actions,” he said.

“There were times when soldiers were kidnapped and then tortured. One soldier, for example, was kept in a cold basement, splashed with acid and chemicals in his eyes, from which he lost his sight for a while, they doused him with gasoline, brought a lighter, and tried to set him on fire,” Vinivitin said.

“A soldier of one unit was beaten, released, and he committed suicide out of hopelessness,” according to Vinivitin. “There were cases when fighters were kidnapped and [Wagner] tried to exchange them for ammunition,” he said, adding that others were used as “slaves” and forced to warehouse the dead and wounded. In other cases, he said, soldiers were kidnapped and “forced to sign contracts with Wagner, thereby weakening the flanks of Bakhmut and my defense.”

Another soldier, he said, was abducted, beaten, and left tied up while Wagnerites stole his vehicle.

Vinivitin said he himself was taken captive by the group after Wagner fighters blocked his path while he was checking on his units.

“As a combat officer, I was not going to tolerate this,” he said. “As a result, Wagner employees were disarmed and sent in a known direction... They were sent to fuck off!”

Russian Draftees Sold Like Cattle to Wagner Group, Families Say

“Subsequently, I was captured, kept in a basement, kicked around in such a way that not even a fucking embittered Russian soldier would kick around a captured soldier of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. I was beaten, not allowed to sleep, they dragged me out of the basement three times a night and tried to shoot me,” he said.

“You and I both know that you have a video confirming my torture and abuse,” he said, addressing the mercenary group directly.

“Yevgeny Prigozhin, to the merriment of Ukrainians, was the first to air dirty laundry and make a political show out of men’s brawls on the frontline, so I have every right to say how I see the situation,” he said, accusing Wagner of “breeding anarchy” on the frontline.

Prigozhin has denied that Vinivitin was held hostage, saying instead that he was “detained for investigation.” The Wagner founder did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Daily Beast on the latest allegations.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-fighters-kidnapping-torturing-other-112712722.html

 

Obviously the west doesn't want to trigger a potential nuclear war. If Russia is bombed, Putin might have an excuse to use tactical nukes. Afterall, the west used that same threat to deter the Soviets from invading Europe in the 60's 70's and 80's. No one wants the nuclear facility in Ukraine damaged either or we're looking at a potential global catastrophe.

All the West wants is for Ukraine to successfully repel the Russian invaders from their soil. Ukraine invading Russia using western equipment could trigger a significant Russian response. Clearly Russia would lose any all out nuclear exchange. But at what cost.

Russia's "supposed" nuclear arsenal is the only real threat Putin possesses.

 

Russia must be stopped at all costs, China too! It will get ugly, no doubt! But it must be done!

 

Russia has more to worry about then we do.. This was their missile warning system in 1972. See all those planned segments? Yeah, they finished four... Four. They have less of a clue when we fire at them. Then them firing at us. To top that off their air radar for plans. They can't speak to each other. So even if they detect us at all. They can't fire at us.. Russians talk a good game. Turns out they don't play that game as well as we do.

 

Russia had every opportunity to be friendly and part of the rest of the world, Putin squandered it, nothing left to be said!

 

Fixxy hiding in his foxhole, knowing everyone here hates Russia ( not Russian people ) still wants to talk trash!

 

Putin already fucked up big time when his actions caused Finland to join NATO. With Sweden to follow. So much for stopping NATO expansion.

 

Ahhh here it is.. The Chaos.. No one knows what is going on. We do know that 24,000 Russians surrendered in the last three months. Some of them called the surrender hotline before deployment. In the last 24 hours, there has been a movement around Bakhumt of about 1.4 klicks. Not much for a kickoff of an offense. However, I don't understand the need to take that worthless target anyway. I mean other than to piss off the Russians it holds nothing of value to either side now. But sometimes knowing what they want and holding it from them, gets them hyper-focused.

Now we get to see who trained Ukraine. If it was the US. This chaos is going to be home sweet fucking home. I love chaos! Watch and see if they hit CnC's all over the place. Wish they had some A-10s or some 16s or even better a couple BUFs with 22s for escort. But they have good fire support in the rear hope that will be enough. Kinda like fighting with one hand behind your back.

If it's the Brits watch for them to suppress fire and maneuver. Brits like everything very coordinated and nice and tidy. They fight without air cover more than any others. So they would be better suited to train for this offensive.

If it was Germans or Poles that trained them. They will fight head-on, and use the armor for cover fire while the troops move up under it. The problem with this is the fucking Russians are in love with mortars and this leaves your troops open to it.

So watch how the map moves in the next week and you will know who and how well they were trained during winter. No matter what, I think they are done trading ground for time. Also from talking to a friend or two this morning. Those Russians are already having issues. Seems food over the winter was a problem. Morale is worse for the Russians than when they kicked this thing off to start with. So we will see if they surrender in mass.

What ya got for us @Ficxa 479 ? Enlighten us with Russia's grand plan here. You tell us how grand Russia is.

 

The newest update from the Institute for the Study of War.

Ukraine has conducted counteroffensive operations with differential outcomes in at least three sectors of the front as part of wider counteroffensive efforts that have been unfolding since Sunday, June 4. Ukrainian officials signaled that Ukrainian forces have transitioned from defensive to offensive operations in the Bakhmut sector and are making gains of between 200 meters and nearly two kilometers on the flanks of the city.

Ukrainian forces have made tactical gains during limited localized counterattacks in western Donetsk Oblast near the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border since June 4.

Ukrainian forces additionally conducted an attack in western Zaporizhia Oblast on the night of June 7 to 8 but do not have appeared to have made gains as part of this attack as of the time of this publication.

 

West made armor destroyed in Ukraine in one attack on single direction. If you gonna lose so much to gain 200 meters, go ahead our armor piercing sqoads are ready. Four US made Bradley , and one Leo.
Cost of one Bradley is 5 million.
and 7 million for one Leo. Plus 800 ukr millitary personel . Well that s is really US made offensive.

 

The LGBT flag is given a military salute by the San Francisco Police and Fire Department.... https://podolyaka.ru/flagu-lgbt-otd...olitsiya-i-pozharnaya-sluzhba-san-frantsisko/

 

Friends, if you happen to accidentally find yourself in a criminal area of the city, where the police are afraid to stick their nose in. Put this track on and be sure no dog or bandit will dare to approach you. The whole world was afraid of the Russian army and Bandits from Russia. So it continues to this day. It can save your life.
Once when I was in the Netherlands in the city of Вelfzijl, I accidentally wandered into one such street full of drug addicts, prostitutes and bandits. There was an evening when suddenly a black man jumps out of a doorway pulls out a knife and starts waving it in front of my face and yells something at me in Dutch, I don't understand him. And switching to English, I say what you need. Then he starts tugging at my coat. Showing me to take it off and give it to him. Then I got stuck, I just bought it two days ago for 800 German marks in the store of Mr Isaacson. Fine wool, short autumn coat, and I like it so much. I raised my hands in the rack and said that I was from Russia. And I won't give him anything. If you can, then take it yourself. He smiled, hid the knife and left.
Russian language casts off all kinda criminals except Russians. xaxaxax/
Here the track that may save you........

 

Russia is a very multinational country and we have representatives of all faiths and confessions. And interestingly, the war in Ukraine has greatly united the multinational union. Christians and Muslims have become much more tolerant of each other......

 

For an incomplete week, the losses of the APU in all areas of the offensive amount to about one reinforced battalion per day — 800-1000 people + equipment. Thus, during the five days of the offensive, Ukrainian troops lost about 4-5 thousand people killed and wounded, that is, reinforced mechanized brigade.

 

For this Ukr zombi war is over he is fucking lucky pow.....